Karl Burns
   HOME

TheInfoList



OR:

Karl Burns (born Carl Birtles,1958 in
Manchester Manchester () is a city in Greater Manchester, England. It had a population of 552,000 in 2021. It is bordered by the Cheshire Plain to the south, the Pennines to the north and east, and the neighbouring city of Salford to the west. The t ...
, England) is a British musician best known as the drummer for the Fall, featuring in many incarnations of the band between 1977 and 1998. Although several musicians have rejoined the Fall having previously left or been fired, Burns was reportedly rehired a record nine times. He eventually left for good, alongside longtime bassist Steve Hanley, following an on-stage altercation with group leader
Mark E. Smith Mark Edward Smith (5 March 1957 – 24 January 2018) was an English singer, who was the lead singer, lyricist and only constant member of the post-punk group the Fall. Smith formed the band after attending the June 1976 Sex Pistols gig at the ...
in New York in April 1998.


Musical career

Burns was the Fall's first permanent drummer, joining them in time for their second gig. He had previously played in a different band, Nuclear Angel, with founding Fall bassist
Tony Friel Tony Friel (born in Birkenhead, Wirral, Cheshire, 4 May 1958)Live at the Witch Trials''. Burns left in early 1979, joining the Teardrops, with
Steve Garvey Steven Patrick Garvey (born December 22, 1948) is an American former professional baseball player. He played in Major League Baseball as a first baseman for the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Diego Padres from 1969 to 1987. Garvey was the National ...
of Buzzcocks, with whom he formed a brief and parallel project, Bok Bok, and remained in the band until 1981, when they broke up. Burns also played with Elti Fits and, briefly, with John Lydon's
Public Image Limited In public relations and communication science, publics are groups of individual people, and the public (a.k.a. the general public) is the totality of such groupings. This is a different concept to the sociological concept of the ''Öffentlichk ...
(PIL) in September 1979, but left because he did not get along with other members, including guitarist
Keith Levene Julian Keith Levene (18 July 1957 – 11 November 2022) was an English musician who was a founding member of both the Clash and Public Image Ltd (PiL). While Levene was in PiL, their 1978 debut album '' Public Image: First Issue'' reached No 2 ...
and bass guitarist
Jah Wobble John Joseph Wardle (born 11 August 1958), known by the stage name Jah Wobble, is an English bass guitarist and singer. He became known to a wider audience as the original bass player in Public Image Ltd (PiL) in the late 1970s and early 1980s; ...
, the latter of whom was long alleged to have attempted to set Burns on fire, although Wobble denied this in 2007. Burns rejoined the Fall in 1981, initially as a temporary replacement for Paul Hanley who was refused a visa for a U.S. tour due to being too young. Recordings from this tour were released as '' A Part of America Therein, 1981''. Upon the group's return to the UK, Smith invited Burns to stay on and The Fall appeared with two drummers until Paul Hanley's departure in late 1984; Burns would also sometimes play a second guitar or bass guitar during that period. His second tenure in the Fall coincided with a string of critically acclaimed releases, including ''
Hex Enduction Hour ''Hex Enduction Hour'' is the fourth studio album by the English post-punk group the Fall. Released on 8March 1982, it builds on the low-fidelity production values and caustic lyrical content of their earlier recordings, and features a two-dr ...
'' and '' This Nation's Saving Grace''. However, he left the band in early 1986 after an argument with Smith, to be replaced by
Simon Wolstencroft Simon John Wolstencroft (born 19 January 1963 in Altrincham, Cheshire) is an English rock drummer, best known for playing with The Fall from 1986 to 1997. He also played with early incarnations of The Smiths and The Stone Roses. His highly pra ...
. After his exit, Burns briefly collaborated with former bandmate
Martin Bramah Martin Beddington (born 18 September 1957 in Manchester),The Fall online – biography
under the name Thirst, and eventually quit music for several years, becoming a motorcycle courier. Burns made an unexpected return to the Fall in 1993 to play alongside Wolstencroft in a second two-drummer line-up until the latter left in 1997. He also contributed guitar, keyboards and occasional vocals during this period. However, he was absent from several tours, leaving and returning regularly until his final departure. According to the 2008 book ''The Fallen'' by Dave Simpson, Burns's repeated departures from the Fall were due primarily to his open resistance to Mark E. Smith's unorthodox leadership. To coax musicians into performing as he prefers, Smith was notorious for using a variety of "moulding" methods such as insults,
silent treatment Silent treatment is the refusal to communicate verbally and electronically with someone who is trying to communicate and elicit a response. It may range from just sulking to malevolent abusive controlling behaviour. It may be a passive-aggressiv ...
, and jostling musicians onstage. Many of Burns's former Fall bandmates reported that he was most likely to retaliate against Smith, physically if Burns deemed it necessary. Burns's clashes with Smith was perhaps most obvious at the notorious New York City concert in 1998 where Burns attacked Smith after the vocalist repeatedly and deliberately knocked one of Burns's cymbal stands to the floor. Simpson also quotes ex-Fall keyboardist
Simon Rogers Simon Rogers is an English musician, record producer and composer who has been a member of The Fall, and The Lightning Seeds. Biography In 1976, Rogers entered the Royal College of Music, London, later becoming an associate (ARCM) and winn ...
describing Burns as a "brilliant" drummer whose somewhat erratic temperament made him unlikely to fit in more conventional bands.


Current whereabouts

Burns was one of few ex-members of the Fall whom Dave Simpson was not able to find for his article "Excuse Me, Weren't You in the Fall?" (2006) and his book ''The Fallen'' (2008). Several ex-members feared that Burns was dead, although a rumour circulated that he lived in "the hills" in Rossendale. In an interview with ''The Stool Pigeon'' (issue 10, February 2007), Mark E. Smith stated that he had recently met Burns' mother; she confirmed that he was indeed alive, advising Smith that he "lives on a farm in the hills somewhere". After the publication of ''The Fallen'', Burns contacted Simpson by e-mail, requesting a copy of the book to a Rossendale address which he stressed was not his residence. Burns had already spoken to his former bandmate, Steve Hanley, by telephone, and told him that he was married and working. It has since been said that several of his bandmates knew where Burns was all the time, and that he simply did not want to be involved with the book.


References

{{DEFAULTSORT:Burns, Karl British male drummers English punk rock drummers English record producers British post-punk musicians The Fall (band) members Public Image Ltd members 1958 births Living people Musicians from Manchester