de Say (Saye, Sai) is the surname of an old

Norman Norman or Normans may refer to: Ethnic and cultural identity * The Normans, a people partly descended from Norse Vikings who settled in the territory of Normandy in France in the 10th and 11th centuries ** People or things connected with the Norm ...

noble family originating from

Sai, Orne Sai is a commune in the Orne department in north-western France. It has a population of 222. Its inhabitants are known as ''Sayiens'' (male) and ''Sayiennes'' (female). Toponymy The name of the village has been found under the forms: ''Saium'' ...

. The first records are about William de Say and Picot de Say, Norman conquerors. The de Say family, held lands in England and France.

French origin

The family descends from Picot Avenel de Say, a vassal of

Robert I, Duke of Normandy Robert the Magnificent (french: le Magnifique;He was also, although erroneously, said to have been called 'Robert the Devil' (french: le Diable). Robert I was never known by the nickname 'the devil' in his lifetime. 'Robert the Devil' was a fic ...

. His son Robert Fitz-Picot, Lord of Aunay, was co-founder in 1060, of the abbey of St Martin at Séez.Seton, Robert. ''An Old Family: Or, The Setons of Scotland and America'', Brentano's, 1899, p. 14
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England

William and Robert de Say (also called Picot de Say) were the sons of Robert Fitz-Picot and his wife Adelaide. They accompanied

William the Conqueror William I; ang, WillelmI (Bates ''William the Conqueror'' p. 33– 9 September 1087), usually known as William the Conqueror and sometimes William the Bastard, was the first House of Normandy, Norman List of English monarchs#House of Norman ...

in 1066. William de Say's descendants inherited the manor of

West Greenwich West Greenwich is a town in Kent County, Rhode Island, United States. The population was 6,528 at the 2020 census. West Greenwich was named for the historic town of Greenwich, Kent, England. It was separated from East Greenwich in 1741. Stud ...

, now known as Deptford, and adopted the Maminot arms, ''Quarterly, or and gules''.

Robert de Say

Robert de Say, also called Picot de Say, was a Norman knight who arrived in

Shropshire Shropshire (; alternatively Salop; abbreviated in print only as Shrops; demonym Salopian ) is a landlocked historic county in the West Midlands region of England. It is bordered by Wales to the west and the English counties of Cheshire to ...

after the Norman invasion. He was the son of Robert Fitz-Picot and his wife Adelaide of Normandy. The family name de Say comes from the Norman village of Sai, in

Orne Orne (; nrf, Ôrne or ) is a département in the northwest of France, named after the river Orne. It had a population of 279,942 in 2019. Robert de Say obtained lands in

, building a

motte and bailey castle A motte-and-bailey castle is a European fortification with a wooden or stone keep situated on a raised area of ground called a motte, accompanied by a walled courtyard, or bailey, surrounded by a protective ditch and palisade. Relatively easy to ...

, known as

Clun Castle Clun Castle is a medieval ruined castle in Clun, Shropshire, England. Clun Castle was established by the Norman lord Robert de Say after the Norman invasion of England and went on to become an important Marcher lord castle in the 12th century, ...

overlooking the lands he had seized from

Edric the Wild Eadric ''the Wild'' (or Eadric ''Silvaticus''), also known as Wild Edric, Eadric ''Cild'' (or ''Child'') and Edric ''the Forester'', was an Anglo-Saxon magnate of Shropshire and Herefordshire who led English resistance to the Norman Conquest, acti ...

after the invasion. Robert was an important vassal of Roger of Montgomery, the 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and a major early Norman magnate. Robert died in 1098. His daughter married the local Welsh lord,

Cadwgan ap Bleddyn Cadwgan ap Bleddyn (1051–1111) was a prince of the Kingdom of Powys ( cy, Teyrnas Powys) in north eastern Wales. Cadwgan (possibly born 1060) was the second son of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn who was king of both Kingdom of Powys and Gwynedd. The Anglo ...

, who acquired permission to move to England, probably Clun, in 1109.Lieberman, p.44. Upon Picot de Say's death in 1098, the castle passed to his son,

Henry de Say Henry de Say was a Norman nobleman who lived in Clun near Shrewsbury, along the medieval Welsh Marches. Henry de Say Henry de Say inherited the important fortification Clun Castle from his father, Robert de Say (also called Picot de Say), in 109 ...

, who continued possession of Clun Castle.

References

Sources

* *

Bibliography

* Brown, Reginald Allen. (1989) ''Castles From The Air.'' Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. . * Eyton, William. (1862) "The Castles of Shropshire and its Border." in ''Collectanea Archæologica: communications made to the British Archaeological Association'' Vol. 1. London: Longman. * Liddiard, Robert. (ed) (2003) ''Anglo Norman Castles.'' Woodbridge: Boydell Press. * Lieberman, Max. (2010) ''The Medieval March of Wales: The Creation and Perception of a Frontier, 1066-1283.'' Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. . * Pettifer, Adrian. (1995) ''English Castles: A Guide by Counties.'' Woodbridge: Boydell Press. . * Suppe, Frederick C. "Castle guard and the castlery of Clun," in Liddiard (ed) 2003. {{DEFAULTSORT:Say, de Medieval English families Anglo-Norman families Anglo-Normans 11th-century births 1098 deaths